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Comparing: US-China LLMs Are Copying One Training Pipeline — Pretraining Isn't the Secret & 中美大模型都在抄同一套训练流水线 — 真正决定能力的,不是预训练

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DeepSeekQwenLLaMA·

US-China LLMs Are Copying One Training Pipeline — Pretraining Isn't the Secret

We've noticed an underrated fact: pretraining consumes 90% of compute, but the 5% mid-training stage is what actually determines whether a model is smart. A long technical post on Juejin lays this out clearly.

What this is

The piece breaks LLM training into a "pipeline." The typical flow has four stages: pretraining (letting the model see the world), mid-training (adding pressure in math, code, and reasoning), supervised fine-tuning or SFT (teaching the model to follow instructions), and alignment (using RLHF, or reinforcement learning from human feedback, or DPO, direct preference optimization, to make answers "helpful, harmless, honest"). A side path is distillation — condensing a large model's capability into a smaller one. Cross-referencing public disclosures from DeepSeek-V3, Qwen2.5, LLaMA-3.1, and Kimi K1.5, the conclusion is: top Chinese and US players' training flows have converged.

Industry view

The article targets training engineers, but reveals a cost structure worth noting for non-technical readers: pretraining consumes 90%+ of GPU-hours, mid-training roughly 5%, SFT under 1%, and alignment has the smallest compute share but the highest engineering complexity.

"Where the money goes" and "where capability grows" aren't the same thing. China's LLMs catching up under compute constraints isn't about stacking GPUs in pretraining — that's a capital and supply chain contest — but about differentiating in mid-training, SFT, and alignment, where compute is small but the technique matters. DeepSeek R1's GRPO breakthrough (a critic-free reinforcement learning method) on reasoning is exactly this kind of play.

Counterpoints exist. Framing the pipeline as this industrialized risks obscuring the importance of fundamental research. When everyone is copying the same SFT+DPO+distillation template, the next breakthrough may come from a small team or academic lab that doesn't play by the rules.

Impact on regular people

For enterprise IT: with the training flow standardized, the engineering bar for "building your own LLM" is lower than people think, but the complexity concentrates in alignment and stability. For most scenarios, buying a third-party API is still the better deal.

For professionals: understanding "models aren't trained in one shot" helps you read vendor pitches — the capability of a "self-developed foundation model" comes from pretraining or mid-training? The former needs capital, the latter needs data and methodology.

For consumer markets: open-source models are rapidly closing the gap with closed ones. The output of the Qwen, Kimi, and DeepSeek line means AI service marginal costs will keep falling — the application layer deserves more attention than the model layer.

Source: juejin.cn
BZH
DeepSeekQwenLLaMA·

中美大模型都在抄同一套训练流水线 — 真正决定能力的,不是预训练

我们注意到一个被低估的事实:预训练吃掉 90% 算力,但真正决定模型聪不聪明的,是那个只占 5% 的中训阶段。掘金一篇技术长文把这事讲清楚了。

这是什么

这篇技术长文把大模型训练拆成"流水线"。典型流程分四段:预训练(让模型见过世界)、中训(往数学、代码、推理方向加压)、SFT 监督微调(教模型听指令)、对齐(用 RLHF 即人类反馈强化学习,或 DPO 即直接偏好优化,让回答"有用、无害、诚实"),旁路还有蒸馏——把大模型能力浓缩到小模型。参考 DeepSeek-V3、Qwen2.5、LLaMA-3.1、Kimi K1.5 的公开披露,结论是:中外头部玩家的训练流程已经趋同。

行业怎么看

文章面向训练工程师,但揭示了一个值得非技术读者关注的成本结构:预训练吃掉 90%+ 的 GPU-hours(GPU 运算小时数),中训 5% 左右,SFT 不到 1%,对齐的算力占比最小、工程复杂度最高。

"钱花在哪"和"能力长在哪"不是一回事。中国大模型能在算力受限下追上来,关键不是预训练堆卡(那拼的是资本和供应链),而是在中训、SFT、对齐这些"小算力、高技巧"环节做差异化。DeepSeek R1 用 GRPO(一种去掉 critic 的强化学习方法)在推理上打出名堂,正是这种打法的体现。

反对意见同样存在。把流水线讲得这么"工业化",可能掩盖基础研究的重要性。当大家都在抄同一套 SFT+DPO+蒸馏模板时,下一代突破反而可能出在不按套路出牌的小团队或学术实验室。

对普通人的影响

对企业 IT:训练流程标准化后,"自建大模型"的工程门槛比想象中低,但复杂度集中在对齐和稳定性,多数场景下买第三方 API 仍更划算。

对个人职场:理解"模型不是一次训完",有助于判断供应商话术——"自研基础模型"的能力到底来自预训练还是中训,前者要资本,后者要数据和方法论。

对消费市场:开源模型在快速追平闭源,Qwen、Kimi、DeepSeek 这条线的产出意味着 AI 服务边际成本会继续下降,应用层比模型层更值得关注。

Source: juejin.cn